Thomas Jones

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I do believe Lovie and his staff know more about what is good for the Bears than any of us, although this is the guy that has Grossman starting and losing the Super Bowl.

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Huh??? The single most reason they lost the SB was because Grossman was starting. I'd rather have an old Drew Bledsoe than a young Rex Grossman any day. The Grossman start plus the Jones trade tells me Lovie doesn't know too much about what he is doing. If it hadn't been for the play of Jones this the year along with the Chicago D, they'd have been sitting at home watching the SB with the rest of the league.

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I would have to disagree with that, if it wasn't for the "HOT" play of Grossman the first half of the season, the Bears would not have had the outstanding season and a chance to play in the Super Bowl. Grossman won a few games for the Bears this year and he lost some too, but overall I don't think Rex did that bad this season. Now don't get me wrong, when Rex was bad he was on the level of a Freshman is High School getting his first start against the defending State Champions, but when Rex was good, he looked like a young Brett Farve IMO. Rex only had a couple of games where he played Average but kept them from losing the game. I hope I am making sense. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Huh??? The single most reason they lost the SB was because Grossman was starting. I'd rather have an old Drew Bledsoe than a young Rex Grossman any day. .... If it hadn't been for the play of Jones this the year along with the Chicago D, they'd have been sitting at home watching the SB with the rest of the league.

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I'll have to agree with you on that one. All year the excuse for Grossman was that he was still a young QB. If he doesn't elevate his play next year and continues making so many rookie-like mistakes, Lovie simply cannot give him the same passes he got this past year. I don't think they will do as well next year, but that's why they play the games. It will be fun to watch.

Lance Briggs has said he isn't playing another day in a Chicago uniform...they have let go their D-Coordinator...makes me think about how Chicago became stagnant after Buddy Ryan left...Mike Smith's injuries may force his retirement, the Bears traded their leading rusher, the P-Nut football Chiefs have a better QB than the Bears...yeah..they are on the fast track to the basement again.

Grossman sucked it up at times, but Angelo and Smith said that alot of the time, the media being so critical of him was unfounded. Angelo was with the giants back in the day when they had QB issues. He said the NY media wasnt as brutal on those guys(Graham and Brown I believe) as everyone has been on Grossman.

Grossman in the playoffs was alot different from Grossman in the regular season too. They made him play "not to lose" in the playoffs. In the regualar season, he was up and down. I believe the regualar season Grossman was the real Grossman, unfortunately we dont know what that really is at this time because of the inconsistency. If he does become consistent, he will be a very good QB. If not, then he will just be another guy that wasnt smart enough to play QB.

You wanna talk about TJ, lets talk about Muhammad. Heres a guy that led the nfl in receiving his last year in carolina. Carolina let him go because of A)his age, B)a new contract, and C)another wide receiver already making good money in Smith.

You guys act like the Bears were being mean to TJ or being cheap, but you can look all over and see the same strategies employed by every team. Salary cap football at its finest, get used to it. Youre not going to see many guys play with the same team their entire careers.

Heres my prediction based upon business: TJ will be the feature back in NY and get a decent contract. If hes good, he probably stays there 2-3 years. The Jets will probably backload the contract and if Leon Washington is "the goods", TJ probably gets released or traded again due to age, salary, and Washington getting a new contract. Fortunately for TJ, Washington's contract isnt bloated like Benson's and both of them should be able to fit nicely under the cap for awhile at least. When contracts get backloaded, that usually means a team will cut you before they get to that year so they dont have to pay a player that money. Thats why players fight so hard for the signing bonus, its the only guaranteed money.

TJ is better off in NY. I'm not saying they were "mean" to him...but he clearly wasn't being paid his worth. But for that matter, none of the Bears are really.

Lovie didnt want Rivera back, what part of that dont you understand?

Angelo may trade Briggs for picks but you didnt do your research very well:

From 2002-06, the franchise tag was used 42 times on 30 different players league-wide and not one of the franchised players missed a regular-season game check.

Only three of the 42 players have been traded: cornerback Champ Bailey, defensive end John Abraham and wide receiver Peerless Price.

So you see, either Briggs plays or he doesnt get paid. The ball is in the Bears court on this one. The rules are in favor of the team not the player.

And what if Briggs doesnt play(which looks to be 100% unlikley), then Chicago drafts a linebacker that comes in and tears it up. Briggs value as a free agent diminishes as a result of playing beside Urlacher. Briggs has zero leverage.

The bears may play hardball but you have to with Drew Rosenhaus. Look at the money being thrown around this offseason. Nobody on this board will tell you that Nate Clements is worth 80 million dollars.

Briggs words were on SI yesterday...probably still are. I know how this stuff works. I'm just stating facts. Yeah, I'd say Lovie did have a riff with Rivera. Rivera's D has consistantly outperformed the O for the past few seasons in Chi. BTW, Ditka had a riff with Buddy Ryan too...but they kept it together long enough to win a Superbowl...and the team was kept together long enough to do it as well. All I'm sayin is that Chicago's front office is the reason the Bears are usually mediocre.

They will be paid, the majority of their rookie contracts are running out soon. You can only pay so many players under a salary cap.

TJ may be underpaid, but when he signed the deal, he was being paid what he was worth based on past production. Should he have made 30 million dollars based upon his production in Arizona and Tampa? NO and thats really all you had to base his career on. If he didnt like it, he shouldnt have signed the contract, after all he was the first player to be signed in free agency that year. Nobody was going to give him anymore or much more than what Chicago gave him.

Overpaying for players isnt the brightest idea btw, Snyder does it every year. The Bears balked at giving Randel El 30 mill, they offered 22. They drafted Hester instead, I think it worked out ok. Same with Archuletta, they offered him something like 16 mill, the Skins offered 22 so they drafted Danielle Manning. Manning started, Archuletta rode the pine and made a fortune. If being cheap is being smart, then Im all for it.

Arizona hasn't had a 1,000 yard rusher since Otis Anderson in the early 80's when they were still the St. Louis Cardinals. No one can run behind that line, and no one has been able to for the past 25 years. TJ was no different. With TB he showed what he was capable of. The Bears got a bargain with him. But, when your feature back has carried your offense for 2 seasons it is a shame to pay him $800,000 per year. It's a shame. Based on his performance, his deal should have been redone or enhanced. Look at the salaries of the backs in the league who start and see where TJ's salary in Chicago ranks.

In the past when Mike McCaskey was running things and there was no salary cap, absolutely. There wasnt an even playing field, Chicago was cheap and Dallas would spend some money and draft so much better.

Now though, everyone has a chance to win. New Orleans nearly moved the team, have always been considered cheap, and are likely superbowl bound because of Brees. If Chicago had Brees, they would probably be a contender every year. Unfortunately they put their faith in Grossman when Brees was available. Hindsight is 20/20 but Brees looked like a bust after 3 years in San Diego so Im blindfully hopeful that things work out.

I would consider the bears more like the bucs organization than anything. Same front office, same coaches, same type of players. The Bucs have only won 1 superbowl as well but the philosphies have been successful in chicago and indy so Im just going to roll with it. It beats being 4-12 and letting Waanstache run your team into the ground. Being cheap didnt get the Bears in trouble, trading first rounders for Rick Mirer is what made them suck.